Good Counters to Golduck

Discussion in 'Question & Answer' started by Ace Trainer Andrew, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Ace Trainer Andrew

    Ace Trainer Andrew Member

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    Hey! I was just wondering what people have found to be the best counters to the lead of Waterium Z Golduck and Pelipper. My team has struggled against this, and I wanted to see what people were using.
     
  2. Pinky

    Pinky Member

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    They are a few ways to deal with double duck; some better than others.
    The best way is with a bulky mon, generally your own water type like Tapu Fini, or Gastrodon (which shuts water moves down completely) or by bringing a combination of a fast or bulky taunter like sash Koko (Life Orb variants get OHKOd by Golduck) that can stop tailwind from Pelipper paired with your own weather setter; preferably something like Sash Ninetales or Scarf Vanniluxe carrying Freeze Dry to do a ton of damage to either of the two ducks.
     
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  3. FrostVGC

    FrostVGC New Member

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    Storm drain Gastrodon lead and especially a good switch in will shut them down pretty quick. A discharge from Koko should clean up pretty well.
     
  4. Xenoblade Hero

    Xenoblade Hero Member

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    I've thought about this question a lot across building multiple teams and I feel the answer you'll need is largely team dependant. Therefore I'll list what I've personally experienced doing work against the Pelipper Golduck combination.

    Sash Tapu Koko is one of the easier solutions to place into a team, although you lose some power compared to the Life Orb set for this small amount of utility, so it may be perhaps too specific unless taking other moves such as Garchomp's EQ is also useful to you as well. Just be aware that there's a increasing usage of hail which can make Sash a dead item on Koko at times. Putting Discharge of the set is pretty much an automatic win against the rain combination, unless Pelipper is running the rare Wide Guard.

    Gastrodon is additionally a very bulky water type that found its way onto plenty of top performing teams at the first international. Storm Drain can cheese rain combinations hard, and outside of rain particular threats such as Tapu Koko and Arcanine aren't well equipped to defeat it. The main notable issue with Gastrodon would be the prevalence of Freeze Dry + Kartana within the increasing amount of hail meta which makes it less capable of walling teams out in the current environment. This wouldn't be so much of a problem if Gastrodon wasn't so passive; it doesn't break through other Pokemon easily either which can restrict it to heavily defensive teams. Partner it up well though (Arcanine springs to mind outside of rain) and it'll do exactly what you need it to.

    Whilst Gastrodon is one of the harder ways to shut down rain, many other water types such as Tapu Fini and Gyarados can deal damage or set up on the combination (Araquanid takes a lot of damage from Hurricane so I wouldn't recommend it as a check). Fini is also notable for preventing Scald burns and confusion from Hurricane. Just be aware that both are incapable of dealing with the combination quickly, so you'll need suitable partners that can withstand the rain combination somewhat to prevent the rest of your team from being swept away.

    Assault Vest Goodra is another consideration due to it's incredible special defence. This dragon is more than capable of walling any combinations of moves through at it and retaliating with a Thunderbolt or Dragon Pulse. Unfortunately it's physical defence can leave it weak to common Pokemon such as Garchomp, but these can be built around with strong partners to deal with threats and/or Intimidate support. Goodra is a team dependant option but it's more than capable of dealing with rain and has some good coverage options in Sludge Bomb, Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam and Power Whip.

    Automatic weather setting, especially with a slower setter than Pelipper is especially strong at hindering the damage output of rain. Torkoal and Gigalith are capable of doing this and despite being weak on the type chart to water, they both can take attacks in their respective weather very well. Both are slow however and may require additionally team support (such as Trick Room, which is covered briefly later) to be utilised outside of a rain check for general use. Faster weather setters such as Ninetales and Vanilluxe can assist in a similar fashion by stopping the damage output, but have to be switched into the combination to stop the weather due to out-speeding Pelipper. From experience they are easier to place into teams then the slower setters so are well worth considering in the current metagame environment.

    Manual weather is an under utilised method of stopping rain as well. Sunny Day would be the move of choice when specifically targeting Golduck Pelipper. In theory this can be placed on any Pokemon that doesn't get KO'd by Golduck (at least) and have a spare moveslot to utilise. Porygon2? Sableye? Tapu Koko?! If you did go down this route, it would definitely require some experimentation since you would want the team to benefit from the effect outside of the Golduck Pelipper matchup.

    Additionally one of the other aspects that can be accounted for against rain is momentum. You can reverse momentum against Rain easily with Trick Room due to how fast the combination is, allowing the rest of your team to attack first. Porygon2 is notable due to it's huge defences, an almost guaranteed special attack boost with Download and access to Recover to sustain itself. Tailwind and Icy Wind are tough to recommend due to Pelipper itself carrying Tailwind the majority of the time, resetting the (presumably bad) situation.

    This post was much longer than I expected it to be, but you have plenty of options against the dreaded double duck. Hopefully this thread can point you in the right direction :)
     
  5. VerbatiM

    VerbatiM New Member

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    Drampa is my favourite anti weather. Cloud Nine is a wonderful thing. A bulky water, as suggested above, is also good to have.
     
  6. Gumi

    Gumi Member

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    My favorite method that has led to a pretty good initial trade-off with leads is specially bulky hariyama + porygon2. Hariyama fakes out golduck, you can EV hariyama to not be KOed by pelliper's hurricane, then set up tail room and mess up their plans. Hariyama with guts boost can then OHKO golduck slot or do a lot of damage with close combat and p2 can bring pelliper to its sash with t-bolt
     
  7. MysteriousLadVGC

    MysteriousLadVGC Member

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    I would like to add to the already great suggestions with the following:

    Kartana is a somewhat shoddy way of countering golduck in a 1-for-1 sort of manner. As most kartanas are running sash or AV they are able to take the Hydro Vortex, then outspeed pelliper to grab the kill. Don't use as a full counter on its own, however it can work if paired well (for instance with porygon2 as others have mentioned.)

    And as Gumi mentioned Hariyama is useful, though it's not limited to him as any Fake Out user paired with a tailwind/TR mon pulls the same off well.
     
  8. banana_bob

    banana_bob New Member

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    Does anyone has a suggestion how to win a mirror-battle against the duck-faces? - yes Gastrodon would absorb ALL Water-STABs... but on the other hand if my opponent runs a Kartana in his team...
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  9. Tamtam

    Tamtam Member

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    AV Kartana has been mentioned, but I'd like to quickly point out that if it's paired with a Tailwind-user, then it's a fairly safe counter as you can match Pelipper's TW with your own.

    A curious counter nobody's mentioned yet is Lapras! Perhaps a bit of a niche Pokémon, but it has Water Absorb and STAB Freeze-Dry, so it beats double duck pretty handily (and other Water-types, for that matter).
     
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  10. Hibiki

    Hibiki Well-Known Member

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    Talonflame gets priority on Supersonic Skystrike and is able to OHKO non-bulky Golduck. Slightly unreliable because HP investment on the Golduck makes this a terrible solution.
     
  11. MysteriousLadVGC

    MysteriousLadVGC Member

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    If you don't have a set of pokemon besides double duck that can viably counter their double duck then I don't recommend using anything other than double duck yourself. It will eventually boil down to a guessing game, with the 50/50 being on whether to protect with golduck or not. Regardless of what you do you should aim to be setting up tailwind.
     
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