NPA 7 Discussion

Discussion in 'NPA' started by Braverius, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. LightCore

    LightCore
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    In my opinion, we run (the estimate I've been using is 80) tours every single day in the VGC room. A lot of them consistent of Non-VGC formats.

    The point of the VGC room is to be a resource and a way to practice and learn, as well as a place to talk to other users. In my opinion, any tour that is not VGC at the very least, has to be ended. Advertising high caliber matches is much more beneficial than someone's run in a CC2v2 tour.

    Also, a lot of people in the moderation staff who argue against ending tours, seem to be the ones who are not in the VGC room 90% of the time. They take these tours more seriously than they should be, as we have an insane amount of them in general.

    A user will by far gain more experience from spectating a high-caliber match between 2 great players on average than they will if they play against a 4 mon meme-team that another user finds fun
     
  2. Chuppa

    Chuppa vegetable

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    Using TT as a primary form of communication (even for TT tournaments) feels absurd to me. The low amount of messages that all of us have serve as a reminder of how infrequently we're on the forums. I know that using Twitter/FB for scheduling isn't as appealing when it comes to organization, but most drafted players use those mediums and actually check them regularly. TT messages are just a fallback.

    If a VGC PS tour is active (pairings/bracket are live), then it shouldn't be ended for NPA. This is just going to cause the people playing in that tour to start to resent NPA, which is the opposite of what we want. I understand that watching NPA could be a learning experience for those people, but if they want to hone their skills in room tours, that's good for them too. If the game link is nice and visible in PS chat, they can still open it up and pay attention to that game while not playing their own. I think I support notifications so that NPA games draw attention even if someone is idling on PS.
    However, I think random formats (anything except current VGC meta) are fine to end for NPA games. Having automatic messages for all these great games of Monotype Randbats (wack af format) isn't worth the negative impact on attention an NPA game would get.
     
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  3. Ezrael

    Ezrael Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, hard disagree with you Chuppa. Room tours don't actually help anyone get better. We are the ones who run them as well, and we are allowed to run/not run room tours if we want. The job of auths isn't necessarily to make the people in the room happy, it's to help them (this is a controversial statement, so feel free to tell me I'm wrong on that). I don't think the fact that people want to play in room tours (a poochty form of practice if ever there was one) is a good enough reason to give it to them. The VGC room runs tours more than any other room I've seen--and by a wide margin. Considering that the players a) don't know how good they've got it, b) what we do isn't good for them in the first place, and c) they could ladder instead, I would argue that we should drastically decrease the number of tours in the first place. Moreover, I think we should definitely not have tours when important games are happening (e.g., official streams, NPA games, Scramble finals, etc.). Part of the reason these tournaments aren't well viewed is because there is not an attempt to publicize games, or reach out to people about them.
    With that in mind i've decided to bring up something that most people don't know about, and is actually a great function. If you go onto the Trainer Tower discord and ask for the @matches tag, you will be highlighted on discord every time a NPA match starts (but not more than once every 30 minutes). This system works really well for people who want to hear about NPA games but also don't want to spend the entirety of their lives on PS!. It works a lot better if more people join, so that way more people can tag a match, as opposed to it just being me and 3 other players. I think this is a good compromise between /announcing on showdown and barely declaring the game at all, forcing me to constantly be aware of when an NPA match might start.
    tl;dr, flip room tours, they suck anyway, and support the @matches function it's really great. Please tell your players about it it's such a good system.
     
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  4. ck49

    ck49 Member

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    https://twitter.com/adisubra/status/967568660415111169

    posted this on Twitter but I figured I'd post it here too. I've been accumulating usage stats and win % stats for individual Pokemon used in the NPA. All the data is in a google drive and I made some charts as well.
     
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  5. Seaco

    Seaco Member

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    I saw Wolfe Glick at a grocery store in Los Angeles yesterday. I told him how cool it was to meet him in person, but I didn’t want to be a douche and bother him and ask him for $5 breedjects or anything. He said, “Oh, like you’re doing now?” I was taken aback, and all I could say was “Huh?” but he kept cutting me off and going “huh? huh? huh?” and closing his hand shut in front of my face. I walked away and continued with my shopping, and I heard him chuckle as I walked off. When I came to pay for my stuff up front I saw him trying to walk out the doors with like fifteen Donations for a VGC Documentary in his hands without making the film. The girl at the counter was very nice about it and professional, and was like “Sir, you need to make the film first.” At first he kept pretending to be tired and not hear her, but eventually turned back around and brought them to the counter. When she took one of the donations and started scanning it multiple times, he stopped her and told her to scan them each individually “to prevent any of my teams from being leaked,” and then turned around and winked at me. After she scanned each donation and put them in a bag and started to say the price, he kept interrupting her by yawning really loudly.

    Monarchs > Spirits
     
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  6. YureeVGC

    YureeVGC Active Member NPA 6 Champion

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    The subbing system is dumb and should be reviewed for following seasons or even immediately for playoffs. It is basically unregulated and has always seemed extremely exploitable and balance-tipping to me.
    I understand that sometimes people have last-minute issues of any kind, but because currently managers are basically allowed to sub at the last second, that leaves the opponent at a big disadvantage, without time to prepare for the match, whereas the new player may have known for way more time and regardless can count on any preparation that the original player might've had.
    I am going to play a match in 15 minutes and have only been informed of who my opponent is a bit over 3 hours ago, which is just ridiculous. A big part of NPA is preparing for opponents each week.
    There should be some moment in time after which subbing isn't a possibility anymore, for fairness and integrity, and that should be at the very least 24 hours before the scheduled time for the match, assuming it is not possible to reschedule for a later time, if not more, otherwise the team that needs to sub should be forced to forfeit the game.
     
  7. Braverius

    Braverius Bird-Dog Administrator NPA 7 Champion

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    I'm going to touch base on this since I agree with some of the sentiments and understand them, but also have counterpoints that are more worth understanding in terms of why I'm not quite as liberal on this than anything else.

    First thing, in terms of it being exploitable - it absolutely is and I've been aware of that, but to date no one has actively tried to exploit it to my knowledge and it's been taboo to do so in my books (and in most managers'). I firmly believe your match is not a result of that either. If someone did do this on purpose I'd enforce the unwritten rule of it and smite the pooch out of the team who tried.

    However, this doesn't forgive that it does make it harder on the player who is facing the substitute. I'm also going to slightly counter-argue this one, but it doesn't excuse the entire issue and I think it still needs a much better solution, just maybe not an abrupt or extreme one. NPA has put a certain amount of precedence on being flexible if you're the type to prepare for a specific opponent, so if that's my forte, yeah I'm going to probably need to account for it. You're correct however in asserting what you did on a basis of time -- splitting time between preparing for who you're scheduled against and who you may be scheduled against is not something that should ideally be deliberated in NPA. It's just that overall I think you're placing far too much emphasis on preparing for an opponent when in reality most of the matches are people using teams with only slight tweaks in them after a little bit of discussion and practice. With 10+ minds on a matchup it shouldn't really be that difficult to at least plan ahead for dangerous substitutes as it is a possibility -- maybe one you don't think about until crunch time, and maybe not a fair one, but still a possibility. Removing that is obviously the purpose of this conversation, but I'm not sure how big of a deal it really is in reality. I'm therefore inclined for a smaller, more reasonable solution than "well you can't show up for your game in which 8 of your teammates could also play, looks like you lost".

    As I said, I still don't think any of this explains away your issue, but I think not even considering that possibility when it exists and is only now suddenly brought up as a problem when teams are faced with direct consequences makes me wonder how much of this is just amplified frustration in terms of asking for little time to come up with a solution. Ironically, that's what we're trying to avoid here with a ruling in a different situation ;) so let us discuss it a bit and the manager staff will work as a team to come up with some ideas. Feel free to pass thoughts along to either me or a manager to share with the group, we just like to keep the chat a little smaller as to not have too much of a giant forum feel but rather a round-table discussion with representative thoughts.

    tl;dr I agree that we need a more clearly defined solution in regards to the potential of abuse of substitutes, but given the nature of how this came up and given that it's never been abused in the past, I think a soft and/or well-discussed addendum rather than a hard and/or knee-jerk one would be ideal here.
     
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